Joshua Minden (00:02):

Welcome back to another episode of Stories and Other Things Holy. In today's episode, our principle storyteller, Dr. Terry Nelson Johnson, takes us on quite a journey as we seek out the meaning of the Epiphany - the coming of the powerful, invisible, immortal God as a weak, visible, mortal, even vulnerable child. Every gift must be received, and this story invites us to reflect on how we receive the gift of God's very self. So let's dive in to more Stories and Other Things Holy.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (00:47):

Stories and Other Things Holy. It occurs to me that on the surface of it, the connection between this story at Epiphany could be a stretch, but I do have a certain capacity to bring things home. So when you're listening to it and you're like, what the, where's he go? There's what people say when they're listening to my stories. Where is he going with this? We're coming home. We're going to bring this home on behalf of stories and a bunch of other things. Holy. So I had the privilege of being in Richard Rohrs first. He started the school, the Living School, and I applied to be a student in that living school, and I was accepted. It was really a beautiful moment in my professional and pastoral career. Sort of came right sort of in the middle of it, which was great. Anyway, so there's 80 of us that were students in the living school, and we would go down together for three, four day periods over the course of, it was a two year program, three, four day periods over the course of each year.

(02:00):

And then each year you had a cohort of 10 people that you studied more intensively with and you would go down for a week together. And so this was going to be the first cohort, and they asked us to sign up for possible weeks that we could do it. And the whole program was a little bit like that. Raiders of the Lost Arc, that scene where that sphere's about to run the dude Dover, and then he bails right at the last hour. That's sort of what the administration of the school was like. The first year. They were just barely making it. So it was a little chaotic in terms of organization. So I indicated to them that I could only go down, the only weeks I was going to be free was in January and in May, and I figured we're going to New Mexico, everybody and their brother is going to sign up like, oh, I would like to do January.

(02:52):

So I assumed that there would not be enough space and I would be in May. And for the cohort, we were going to take a week and look at mysticism, and we got a lot of reading to do for mysticism, and it was extremely challenging. It was mysticism and I thought I'd put it off a little bit to perhaps, I don't know, march. And about some time in early December, I got the word that I am in the January cohort. I'm like, oh my God. So here's just a tip cramming for your mysticism test is really, that's not something you want to do, but that's what I'm doing. So I'm exercising the morning on an elliptical, reading mysticism and highlighting and sweating on top of it. And I don't want to go down there. It's going to be the first cohort. You don't want to out yourself too early.

(03:50):

So I get to the last day, the next day I'm leaving for New Mexico. I'm trying to finish the reading. I'm at the Evanson YMCA, and I noticed that there are little signs for massage. Now, Evanson, YMCA. It's sort of an old conservative place, the last place you would've imagine massage, sort of making its debut. But I'm like, Hey, this is it. So I go and I'm like, is it possible that there's a slot for massage like today? And sure enough, there was, and all the massage therapists were up there, and there was a picture of a woman who got the impression she may have had an indigenous sort of heritage, and she was stunningly beautiful. And I thought I would love that person to be my massage therapist. Sure enough, it's the woman. She comes in and she is good. And I'm just like soaking it in my whole body.

(04:50):

I've been gone two weeks. That's a lot of mysticism. And she's just doing this thing, and I am grateful every cell of my body is grateful. So they finish and they ask if you want water and no. And then she goes out and she comes back, and I am so eager to thank her and I lift up my head. I'm just about to start with my little thank you thing. I still remember, I can still feel it. She puts her hand on my forearm and she says, no, no, no, no, no, thank you. Thank you. When you do what I do, you're dependent on someone actually receiving it. And you're a really good receiver.

(05:39):

I want to thank you. One of the lines that we were supposed to study for our mysticism was God so loved the world that God poured God self out on our behalf. And as I reflected on it, it occurred to me that in order for God to do what God wants to do, God must be received. There's an element of reception, and then what's the cost of receiving God? So I think about the epiphany, and it's like, isn't it God's debutante? I mean, it's sort of God coming out to the world like, Hey, here I am, God and stuff. And then the king guys are like, we are here to receive you. How many people were invited to that moment, that debutante moment, and that we are invited to that debutante moment and that God's capacity to do what God wants to do is dependent on our receiving God. And so this woman that was spending all this energy on me for an hour, her capacity to do what she ached to do was contingent on my willingness to receive the gift. So this epiphany is here, here, take this gift. I am this gift. Participate in this gift. Oh man, pray that we all might commit ourselves to being really good receivers. And in doing that to allow God to be and do what God wants to do as a result of being received by you and I and our Stories and Other Things Holy community. Amen, Brothers and Sisters!

Joshua Minden (07:47):

Bless us one more time, Oh Lord,

Terry Nelson-Johnson (07:53):

for these thy gifts,

Joshua Minden (07:55):

which we continue to receive

Terry Nelson-Johnson (07:57):

from thy bounty

Joshua Minden (07:58):

through Christ our Lord.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (07:59):

Amen.

Joshua Minden (07:59):

Amen.

(08:01):

All right. It's epiphany.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (08:03):

It is.

Joshua Minden (08:05):

The wise men have arrived. Presumably Jesus isn't in the manger anymore. He might be running around perhaps biting ankles. That being said, yeah, the kings came to do homage to the child.

Speaker 3 (08:27):

Yeah.

Joshua Minden (08:31):

What's the relationship between coming to bear gifts to the king and receiving?

Terry Nelson-Johnson (08:41):

Yeah, that's the power of this story for me. It goes back to such a central, and we've talked about it before, the centrality of paradox in the realm of the Spirit. And so the wise men come bearing gifts and in all likelihood because they thought that was their job, less prepared to receive gifts like, whoa, wait, I'm the one giving the gifts here. And the power of that story for me was that the gratitude on the part of the massage therapist for her gifts to be received and her declaration that I can't do what I do unless people are willing to receive what I have to offer.

(09:41):

And so the line that we were asked to contemplate a lot in anticipation of our mysticism week was God so loved the world that God poured God, God's very self out, which puts you in a position of deep gratitude like, oh my gosh, God is giving God self to me. And that was where all the focus was, that you were supposed to sort of get lost in that which God bless that idea, but no attention was ever given to. So if God is pointing godself out, and that's God's only desire, then God's capacity to do what God wants to do is contingent on my receiving that God self, God's gift, Jack, she says, God can't do anything here without our cooperation, which I've always thought of says, that is crazy. It's

Joshua Minden (10:44):

A bold assertion.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (10:45):

Oh my gosh. But if you think about it in terms of nature and your guys, the Franciscan guys, nature is the first scripture. Nature is the epitome of that cooperation with God's desire to foster new life, to foster the Paschal mystery actually happening in the seasons in the environment and nature cooperates. If nature's like, no, we're not doing that, then God can't do what God wants to do. It's very humbling to think that God depends on my response to God in order for God to do what God wants to do. And then the utter paradox of someone spending an hour on my opinion, if someone is a really good misogynist therapist that you are tired after an hour, I give my wife a good massage for an hour, for half an hour. I'm like, I've tapped out, girl. I mean, I love you and everything, but I'm 69. We're done. So an hour of just that kind of consistent pouring out of energy. And then she's the one that does the thanking

(12:01):

Because she's allowed to do what she aches to do. When you watch someone you love doing what they love, you love it. So God's watching her do her massage therapist, which is like, she's unbelievable. And then God's loving it and her capacity to do it. And then her graciousness, and that was the other thing, her thank you to me was so genuine, and it wasn't just like, oh, thank you very much. She was, thank you. I can only do what I ache to do when someone is willing to receive, and you're a really good receiver. And I felt, I was like, yeah, excuse me. Good receiver. Good receiver.

Joshua Minden (12:51):

I love these moments. I struggle when I feel like I live in multiple worlds, all these different language and different traditions that I've spent time with. This one really struck me in this moment, this idea of that this masseuse, this massage therapist has poured out all this energy over this hour or more, but it's about the mode of the receiver. It's about that receptivity and talking about mysticism. It takes me back when I was in Novi, I spent a lot of time with, theres lasu and she talked, you talked about pouring his very self out or God pouring God's very self out there, noticed in the heart of Christ, all of this un receive love in this intimacy that she had with Christ. There was this expression of a grief on the part of Christ for I've poured all of myself out, pulled all this love out into the world, and so often it goes, receive. And so she committed herself, and so many inspired by her have committed themselves to console the heart of Christ by accepting the overflow. It's like, let me be an overflow of that. And sometimes people, we can take that in strange places, I've done it, et cetera. But in this space, she just spent an hour working over those muscles, those anxious mysticism, seized up muscles, and she's like, thank you.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (14:43):

Yeah, exactly.

Joshua Minden (14:48):

And all of a sudden, I feel like I have just a little more appreciation for what TRS was trying to tell me. Jesus is like, I rolled up in a little baby and gave up my autonomy and my free will and relied upon a woman to live, laid in a hay trough.

Speaker 3 (15:13):

Yeah.

Joshua Minden (15:15):

And nobody wants my gift.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (15:18):

Yeah.

Joshua Minden (15:18):

Thank you for receiving my gift.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (15:20):

Yeah,

Joshua Minden (15:22):

That's so good.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (15:23):

I'm so thankful that trace thing is so beautiful. If we switch it to besides therapist, it's a little bit like my saying, would you like me to stay for a second hour? Right? Well, if I must.

Joshua Minden (15:41):

Well, if it means that much to you.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (15:43):

Exactly. But it does. That's the thing. Amen. There's that iconic scene on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, and it's the two fingers, finger of God and finger of humanity, and in the picture, God's is straining. We got to make contact here. We have got to make, and human's finger is a little, I don't know what's going to happen here if we make contact, and I sort of think that's what this is like. God is straining, please receive what I have to give. Everything depends on it. And it's sort of the antithesis of putting ourselves in a passive position of perpetual expression of almost lacky gratitude to God, like, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for pouring yourself out. That's so great. I don't even know what to say. That's not going to work. The other part of it's like, thank you for this gift. I will use it robustly. I will receive it with dignity, and I will use it on behalf of love. That's different than like, oh, oh, my mom, when I used to overthink my mom, she first of all would be thinking, are you sucking up for, you want the bike or you want the big trip or whatever. But if you thanked her too much, she would just say, go out and do your thank yous.

(17:25):

That's enough. Thank you. Go out and do your thank yous. Thank you for pouring yourself out. Good. Receive the gift and then go use it on my behalf.

Joshua Minden (17:36):

I love this idea of cooperating with God and this idea of how to check. You just said adage, should I say it again? God. God

Terry Nelson-Johnson (17:45):

Can't do anything here without our cooperation.

Joshua Minden (17:52):

It takes me back to scripture. It takes me back to my wife and I have been really enamored with this passage from Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus, and I think it's like chapter three where he talks about, Paul says that that same power by which God raised Christ Jesus from the grave dwells in you. And so you want to talk about pouring out. So God pours God's self out so much. So that same power by which the Almighty raises the incarnate Christ from the grave is moving, living, breathing, having its way in and through us. And you're telling me that, God. So that's where I go when you say God can't do anything without us. And it's like Right, because He choose, or because God chooses for it to be that way. He wants our cooperation, he wants our participation, and then he gives us what's necessary to be love to be, what is it you call your confirmation retreat being confirmed into a life of love and service. That's what we're talking about. God wants us to be love in the world, be of service. And so here's God, here's this story. Sorry, I got all animated. All of a sudden this story is turning my perspective again on how do I receive that gift

Terry Nelson-Johnson (19:37):

In that middle of that little riff you said, and then God has his way with us. Well, no, not necessarily.

Joshua Minden (19:45):

Yeah, tell me more.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (19:47):

That's where God wants to have God's way with us, but just dependent on our cooperation.

Joshua Minden (19:53):

Yeah. Okay.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (19:54):

So it's, it can't, the nature of God, it can never be in positional. It's just not the nature of love. And so I want to give you this gift, but you have to receive it, and then you have to use it. I don't know if we can do this. If not, it'll be a teaser for our people and they can go find it themselves. But isn't there a thing when you want put something out there that there's a fair usage if you only use 17 seconds or something like that of somebody else's work,

Joshua Minden (20:25):

If we're commentating on it, yeah, we can.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (20:27):

Well, there we go.

Joshua Minden (20:28):

Yeah.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (20:28):

So Sarah Thompson, beautiful musician who has served the love community at all. St. Pat's really, really generously has a song. And the title of the song is, oh my People come to me. Name of the song is Come to Me. And the refrain is, oh my people come to me and I will hold you. And it just repeats itself and it's just so beautiful. And then the last third of the song, she repeats that refrain again, oh my people come to me and I will hold you. And then there's like this musical ellipsis, and then she says, and will you hold me? And the first time I heard of them like, oh, that's illegal. You should not be singing that. Wait a minute. God needs to be held. This is sort of parallel to what we're talking about. God needs for us to receive the gift and to use, God wants to give us the gift and for us to use it. God is dependent on us doing that.

(21:31):

So not only does God say, I will hold you, which is sort of beautiful and not is very beautiful, but it's very, what we would expect is to God say, and I will hold you. What we don't expect is God's request that we hold God. And in this instance is like, please receive me, receive this gift and my capacity to be myself in the world as God is utterly dependent on you receiving this gift, man. And so the wise guys leave with gifts. They come bearing gifts. The last thing they would've expected is to leave with gifts like, well, we carried all these, our donkeys carry the gifts, and we wrapped 'em, and they're expensive gold, frankincense and merr. By the way, the ointment that you use for burial, which anticipates both of our entire incarnation trek, which is unbelievably poetic, but they come with gifts. They go home and what do you got? There're like, oh, we got gifts back. Like, oh, geez, we sent you to give gifts. I know we did. We gave them the gifts, but then we return with gifts. And he insisted, you have to take this gift. You have to receive this gift so I can be who I am in the world. So humbling. I think a massage is an order

Joshua Minden (23:06):

Here. Here.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (23:07):

Massage is all around stories and other things. Holy

Joshua Minden (23:14):

Speaking of receiving, bless us, oh Lord,

Terry Nelson-Johnson (23:20):

For these thy gifts,

Joshua Minden (23:23):

Which we receive

Terry Nelson-Johnson (23:27):

Over and over and over again from thy bounty

Joshua Minden (23:30):

Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

(23:41):

Thank you for joining us for this Epiphany episode of Stories and Other Things Holy. Our hope is that these stories can have a transformative impact on as many people as possible. For that to happen, we need your help. We encourage you to share this episode, our emails or our social media with your friends and loved ones. Anyone else that you think might benefit from this experience. Consider hosting a watch party or listening circle to take part in some honest faith sharing or consider become a supporting member through Buy Me a Coffee or directly.

(24:12):

Visit our website: StoriesAndOtherThingsHoly.com to learn more or email us at connect@otherthingsholy.com. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us. We'll look forward to seeing you again next week for more Stories and Other Things Holy.