Joshua Minden (00:06):

Hi there. Welcome to Stories and Other Things Holy,, thank you for joining us. As we gather the folks, tell the stories, and share in a feast together as we delight in all the ways that a story can be a source of connection, wonder and surprise. Today, our principal storyteller, Terry Nelson-Johnson, shares the experience of encountering a family of four while hiking in the woods. Their dynamics serve fruitful for our conversation and reflection, while also providing us another reminder to pay attention to the limitless ways that we can encounter grace in our world. So take some time, get ready, and let's go hunting for Stories and Other Things Holy.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (00:50):

Stories and Other Things Holy. Sometimes like stories that look just completely innocent, end up rocking your world in the most beautiful way and stories that you could just imagine as cute and charming... And, those of you who I've had a chance to have some relationship with, you know cute and charming are not, I don't like the words. I don't like living in cute and charming. And so sometimes stories present themselves as cute and charming, and then if you excavate just a little bit, you're like, oh, wait a minute. And this is one of those. My wife and I are up in northern Wisconsin, emphasis on Northern, and we're just had a week away and we're hiking. It was not a good day to hike. It was just extremely hot, unexpectedly hot. We have a seven mile hike or something, and it's just oppressive. And my wife does not like the heat.

(01:49):

I don't mind the heat so much, but it was not an easy hike for her. And there's a lot of mosquitoes and there's nobody hiking. This is only renters. Only renters would be hiking during this week. This is our one day we can hike, so we're going to go hiking regardless of circumstances. So we go out and we hike, and it wasn't the most enjoyable experience. We're about halfway through. We had not seen anybody yet. And there's a young girl, maybe, I don't know, 15 walking. She's not happy. She's in flip-flops. And my wife and I always loved, we got all dressed up. We got our hiking pants and the hiking stuff and the hat and all the bug spray. And then the girl comes by shorts and flip flops, and we're in expensive hiking boots. It sort of reminds us like, okay, she comes by and her parents have brought her for mandatory fun and she'll have none of it.

(02:41):

So she just goes by, say hello, nothing. And then the dad and the kid come and they are dressed in full body like safari gear. They got the hat, the hat with the screen thing, and they got the shirts with all the pockets and stuff, and there's whistles and both the dad and the son, and they got those pants that you tuck in. I'm telling you, this is amazing. And they are crouched down and they're going, and I thought, we're going to get attacked. And they both have slingshots and they are poised to go. We give up, we give up. So they're doing this and the kid walks by us. We did not want to make any fast moves, otherwise you're going to get nailed by this kid. He's maybe like six or seven. And the dad's behind him, and God bless this dad. He is as into it as his kid. And then clearly you had to whisper. I mean, nobody made an announcement, but you knew that whispering was an order. So I just whisper to the dad, Hey, what's your hunting? And the kid turns around to see what his dad will say, and the dad's like

(04:02):

Everything!

(04:08):

I love that dad. And those of us who come from a place of a Christian imagination, we're asked to believe that we swim in grace, that the whole world is an ocean of grace and we're the recipients of it. And that at every juncture, every corner, every crevice, there's grace. And so rather than being a charming story, I left that encounter. The rest of the walk was easy for me. I was thinking, what am I hunting for? I thought my obligation is to hunt for grace. And that kid and that dad, I'm like, I want to be like them. I'm like, what's hunting? Everything! So join me in a hunt for grace Stories and Other Things Holy.

(05:17):

Bless us, the Lord.

Joshua Minden (05:18):

And these your gifts,

Terry Nelson-Johnson (05:19):

Which we have just received

Joshua Minden (05:22):

From your bounty

Terry Nelson-Johnson (05:23):

Through Christ our Lord.

Joshua Minden (05:25):

Amen.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (05:26):

Amen. Amen.

Joshua Minden (05:31):

I am really fixated on this sister. She is taking her...

Terry Nelson-Johnson (05:37):

That is so Ignatian, man. I haven't thought about the sister since I referenced her flip-flops. And Ignatius says, when you listen to scripture, identify with a particular character. You got the sister, you got a sister all to yourself, riff. But tell me about that sister.

Joshua Minden (05:55):

I'm just saying, ugh. I mean the older brother and the prodigal son story, me in chunks of my life, she is the version of her that lives in my mind is taking herself way too seriously. She is way too cool for school. She ain't having none of it.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (06:13):

None of it.

Joshua Minden (06:14):

?I've heard you tell this story before. I shouldn't say obviously, but it's a high probability. And every time you use the word mandatory fun, something in me tickles a laugh. Because when I was in the Friars, we used to call the community social on Sundays, Sunday evening, mandatory fun. You want to talk about a cynical way to think about fraternal communal activity? I mean, it was mandated by the formators. We were required to be there. Someone was taking attendance. But I kind chuckle at that notion and I feel like, man, how much have I missed out on because I took myself too seriously? How much grace did I walk past, walk through how many people filled with joy did I walk among, unamused? And, I'm not here to down myself. I'm just saying missed opportunities right

Terry Nelson-Johnson (07:36):

Here. Here.

Joshua Minden (07:38):

Whereas in 12 Step, we often talk about act as if one of these ideas, sometimes we need to take on the mindset and the behaviors and the attitudes of someone in the place we want to be.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (07:59):

Yes.

Joshua Minden (07:59):

And I feel like if the sister had just put the hat on just the boots instead of the flip flops, you're hiking in the woods. No one should. Well, okay, no one, but you should be hiking in the woods in flip flops. Yeah. If she just acted as if a little bit, yeah, she'd have been hunting for everything too.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (08:28):

It's so fascinating to identify with different characters, and I love it that you identify with the girl. The dad is my hero. All the dad had to do was humor his son and let him get his gear and be on his phone in back of him, whatever.

Joshua Minden (08:50):

That's good son.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (08:51):

And he goes to Amazon and gets the adult version and he's like, yeah. And the kid's like, yeah, dad, we go to Safari. He's like, yeah, we'll go to Safari. And I just think it just captures my experience of God so much. Like, oh, you want to go to safari? I'll go into safari with you. Yeah, I'll hunt with you. And Nick Weber says, do you have any idea how much energy it takes to make belief? And the dad made believe, let's make belief Dad like, okay, let's make belief that there's grace to hunt for and we're going to spend energy making belief. And then in the face of cynicism, in the face of boredom, in the face of all that stuff, we're like, no, no, no, let's make belief. And the dad did it and the son was like, yeah, me and my dad we're making belief. And there is stuff out here to hunt. Boom, man, I love that dad. And I think that dad is so much like, God, okay, whatever you want to play today, I'll play with you and we'll make some belief like, okay, let's do that. Wow, So good.

Joshua Minden (10:10):

 I know this ping ponging is going to be interesting, but I kind of wonder where the mom's mindset was. Yeah, that's good. Obviously the son is just living, to your point, he is like, dad, how much more fun is it when someone's with you all in?

Terry Nelson-Johnson (10:31):

Right. So much more fun.

Joshua Minden (10:33):

And so that kid is probably just hovering off the ground. Dad's all in, dad's clearly getting something out of it himself. And mom, do you even remember, was mom just mildly content or was she more like the daughter? Or was she amused and joyful?

Terry Nelson-Johnson (10:55):

I think she was amused and joyful. I love it. She was bringing up the rear to make sure no one got lost and not rolling her eyes in that cynical way, but into sort of like those boys.

Joshua Minden (11:09):

Oh, like a good pride kind of a

Terry Nelson-Johnson (11:10):

Thing. Oh, I love that. That's good.

Joshua Minden (11:14):

One of the thoughts that came to my mind and jumping back a little bit to this idea of taking myself too seriously. Every time we get vulnerable, every time we experience healing or release or relief or consolation, it gets messy. We cry, we get disheveled, we crumple our bodies, do weird things. All of the tidiness, all of the things that we clinging to, that we prop ourselves up with, our attitudes, our mindsets, our environment, it gets messy. And you'd think that we would get used to, we would recognize that and we would maybe lean in a little more, but in some ways it's like all the more tempting to fight it.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (12:07):

Yeah.

Joshua Minden (12:12):

I feel sadness for that. I feel sadness for that daughter. I feel sadness for the prodigal son's older brother. It's like, how dare You've never killed the fatted calf for me and my friends and dad's with her. You've been with me this whole time. I'd give you my right arm if you'd just asked me for it. Yeah.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (12:35):

What do you want to hunt for?

Joshua Minden (12:36):

Yeah,

Terry Nelson-Johnson (12:37):

I'm with you.

Joshua Minden (12:38):

Oh, I love that. What are you?

Terry Nelson-Johnson (12:42):

Yeah, if the girl wants to break dance, then the dad's going to get all dressed up as a break dancer. I'm like, let's go.

Joshua Minden (12:48):

That's so good.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (12:49):

Yeah. The other two things that came to mind with this story. One was a real sad element of sort of a two dimensional understanding of grace, which the institutional church sort of fell into, or we don't want to go too far down that road, but it's made a commodity and the church owns grace. And if you come to the church and you have your paperwork and you follow all the rules, then we'll give you some grace. Like the church has the grace to give. It's just such a perversion of grace. Ideally, that definition of Catholicism, grace, mediation, sacrament, like life mediates grace. And ideally the church should celebrate and enhance that and help people believe at the most unlikely places that there's grace to be had, but we don't own it and we don't control it, and we don't pass it out

(13:53):

To the well-behaved. And so this notion that what you're hunting for everything, and recently you and I participated in that year long pastoral experience called Adventures in Grace. And the notion, the question that we asked people to ask over the course of the entire year was just every day, maybe every hour, ask yourself, where's the grace? And begin to develop the discipline to actually ask it and seek an answer. And if you can't find an answer, it's probably not God's fault. The idea is the theory is that grace is there to be had. And so, whatcha hunting for everything sort of suggests, oh, there is grace all around us all the time. And grace is a synonym for God. So we have the privilege of taking in, of being gifted with God at every juncture were we to be paying attention. Like whatcha hunting for? Everything! Where's grace? Everywhere! Boom! Wow. And I have used that as my primary prayer practice for 24 months. And in my journal now, I have pages and pages of my answer to the question, where's the grace? And I just put, we're taping this one on Friday, June 21st, 2024, and if today's a good day for me for prayer, I will get in my journal. I'll get in my little note of Friday, June 21st, and then in five bullet points I'll answer, where's the grace? Got to play monopoly with my 6-year-old granddaughter this morning?

(15:53):

Where's the grace? Let me tell you, if you don't have a lot of time and patience, you do not want to play Monopoly with your 6-year-old granddaughter. But if you're looking for grace anywhere, then you become the buffalo or the hat or the little boat. You play some high quality monopoly with your granddaughter. Oh, there's the grace. There's the grace, there's the grace. What you hunting? Everything? Where's the grace? Everywhere? Boom.

Joshua Minden (16:26):

Wow. I have to admit, I really miss those grace exercises, those questions, those invitations to look, I mean, really everything we did during that year is predicated on this idea of we were essentially looking for different aspects of grace in all the places. I feel like that is kind of at the core of why we're doing this podcast.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (16:59):

I think it is too.

Joshua Minden (17:01):

It's like, where's the grace in this story? And more than that, how is the story helping me to see the grace around me?

Terry Nelson-Johnson (17:10):

Yeah. For me, what grace did this mediate? What grace did this story mediate?

Joshua Minden (17:16):

Yeah. Yeah. And in its best, that's what the church is called to do, is to mediate, to shine the light

Terry Nelson-Johnson (17:36):

Yeah. And, Jack Shay's definition of Catholicism, gather the folks, tell the stories, break the bread. It's so simple. In some ways, and I'm prejudiced obviously because we're doing Stories and Other Things Holy, but gather the folks, tell the stories, and then you'll have a feast. And the feast will be the experience communally of reveling in the story and then sharing one's response to the story and confirming that there is grace in the story. So I think that's really the soul of this podcast, of gather the folks, tell the stories, have a feast, break the bread, and we pray.

Joshua Minden (18:20):

Beat me to it.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (18:22):

Hey, hey, pray before you eat and pray after you eat. Bless us, oh Lord,

Joshua Minden (18:28):

And these your gifts,

Terry Nelson-Johnson (18:29):

Which we have just received

Joshua Minden (18:31):

From your bounty

Terry Nelson-Johnson (18:32):

Through Christ our Lord.

Joshua Minden (18:33):

Amen.

Terry Nelson-Johnson (18:33):

Amen. I like that. Me too.

Joshua Minden (18:49):

Thank you for joining us today. I invite you to take some time throughout your week to look for grace, look with eyes of wonder and delight, and become like these little children. As Jesus said, you can access a written reflection as well as additional prompts on our website: storiesandotherthingsholy.com or by signing up for our email newsletter. If you enjoy Stories and Other Things Holy, we would love to hear from you, share your experiences, reflections, feedback or suggestions by emailing us at connect@otherthingsholy.com. We look forward to hearing from you. We invite you to subscribe to our YouTube channel where each episode can be accessed as a video. We'll see you next week for Stories and Other Things Holy.